COVER STORY: Nancy Wilson reflects on Texxas Jam, Van Halen & Chappell Roan kinships, plans for Heart documentary
Written by: Ian Saint
Cover photo by: Criss Cain
This isn’t Nancy Wilson’s first Buddy Magazine cover story. In the summer of 1978, Heart sisters Nancy and Ann Wilson graced Buddy’s cover about the inaugural Texxas World Music Festival — which included the Texxas Jam rock concert, featuring co-headliners Aerosmith and Ted Nugent. “The Bad Boys from Boston” filmed and immortalized their set with the Live Texxas Jam ’78 home video.
The first Texxas World Music Festival took place in Dallas’ historic Fair Park — where the State Fair of Texas is held every autumn — from June 30 to July 4. The Texxas Jam concert was staged in Fair Park’s legendary Cotton Bowl Stadium, with a rumored 100,000 attendees. (Willie Nelson’s Picnic was held there on the following day, boasting a country music line-up that’s also jaw-dropping in retrospect.)
Beyond the shock of playing for a gargantuan audience, the inaugural Texxas Jam proved to be very consequential for Heart behind the scenes. This is where they first met Journey’s new frontman, Steve Perry, playing his first Texas show since his debut Journey single “Wheel in the Sky” was released in the spring.
1978’s Texxas Jam is also where Heart met Van Halen, the very first billed band* to play that day — following Walter Egan — as their debut album had just been released in February. Van Halen later observed Heart’s set from the side of the stage. Watching Nancy Wilson play Texxas Jam might have inspired him to record an acoustic guitar solo on Van Halen II a few months later, a theory that Nancy and Buddy’s Ian Saint will ponder in our interview.
*The first band to play Texxas Jam was Blackstone, from Amarillo, who won a “battle of the bands” contest — comprising groups from across Texas — staged on the first day of Texas World Music Festival. Blackstone was also awarded a recording contract with Polydor. In a story reminiscent of Almost Famous — which Nancy Wilson scored — guitarist Mark Sorrels attests that Polydor snubbed the band after the publicity fanfare, and Blackstone “disintegrated” a couple years later.
Texxas Jam marked an enormous milestone for streamlining stadium rock shows, and the concert became an annual tradition through 1988. Heart returned for 1979, co-headlining with Boston; and it’s worth noting both Van Halen (with David Lee Roth) and Sammy Hagar were on the bill. Heart played Texxas Jam a third time in 1981, when the concert moved to Houston’s Astrodome, co-headlining with REO Speedwagon. In 1982, Texxas Jam became a traveling festival, staged across both the Cotton Bowl and Astrodome across two days.
Speaking to Buddy in 2026, Nancy Wilson remarks, “You see stadium shows nowadays, like with Taylor Swift, and the stadium thing is pretty close to what the Texxas Jam started.”
Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour promoter, Texas-based Louis Messina, likely concurs — after all, he co-created Texxas Jam. Speaking to Pollstar in 2022, Messina remarked “Texxas Jam contributed to building the stadium tour model we have.” At the time, Messina was a partner in PACE Concerts. In the ‘80s, PACE began constructing “shed” amphitheaters — their second being Starplex Amphitheater in Fair Park (now called Dos Equis Pavilion). Today, Messina promotes stadium tours by artists like George Strait, Kenny Chesney, and Ed Sheeran in addition to Swift — who met Messina while opening for Texas’ King George.
Nancy Wilson sat down with Buddy’s Ian Saint — who interviewed Ann Wilson for NPR and PBS Ohio affiliate, WOUB Public Media, just before Heart’s long-awaited reformation two years ago — ahead of Heart returning to the Texas area with 4 shows on the final leg of their Royal Flush Tour, which are listed and hyperlinked below.
- Friday, Feb. 27 — Lucas Oil Live @ WinStar World Casino — Thackerville, OK (40 miles north of DFW)
- Sunday, March 1 — Brookshire Grocery Arena — Bossier City, LA (25 miles east of Texas)
- Tuesday, March 3 — Majestic Theatre — San Antonio, TX
- Friday, March 6 — El Paso County Coliseum — El Paso, TX
Texas music legend Lucinda Williams is the supporting act (except for in San Antonio). The Grammy Hall of Fame recently announced that Heart’s Dreamboat Annie and Williams’ Car Wheels on a Gravel Road albums are among their 2026 inductees; and Williams was a recent guest of Ann Wilson and Criss Cain’s podcast, “After Dinner Thinks.” (Read Buddy Magazine‘s review of Lucinda’s Don’t Tell Anybody The Secrets show at Longhorn Ballroom here.)
A transcript of Nancy Wilson and Ian Saint’s two conversations, edited for length and clarity, follows.
IAN SAINT: I narrowly missed you on the Rock Hall induction red carpet [in Los Angeles]. I interviewed Chappell Roan — I was actually the one and only interview she did…
NANCY WILSON: Oh, you’re kidding. She’s so cool. She’s like 27 going on 16 — a little fairy spirit for the purpose of good in the world, you know, she does the right stuff. The Rock Hall (induction) was a really cool experience.
IAN SAINT: Chappell was wearing Cyndi’s “True Colors” music video ensembles; and it just occurred to me, that song was written by Billy Steinberg and Tom Kelly — who also wrote “Alone.”
NANCY WILSON: Wow, see how the dots connect. The Steinberg / Kelly team was really great. They wrote “Like a Virgin”…
IAN SAINT: Yes, Madonna had their first #1 single. Then “True Colors,” then “Alone.”
NANCY WILSON: “True Colors,” that’s one of my all-time favorites. What Cyndi did with that song at the Hall of Fame, with the big rainbow, was really touching.
IAN SAINT: Thank you for speaking with us at Buddy Magazine, the Original Texas Music Magazine. Heart played the infamously hot and massive first Texxas Jam, and Buddy selected you and Ann as the cover story for that.
NANCY WILSON: All right, Buddy Magazine! I saw the picture of Steve [Fossen] holding the magazine with me and Ann on the cover, with the famous groupie [Audrey Hamilton] glomming onto him. [laugh] I printed out all those links that you sent. That was really cool to get the background again, and be reminded of all three of those amazing events.
The first one was particularly mind-blowing for a baby band like Heart — because it was such a massive event, and actually pretty well-coordinated. They had trailers in the backstage area, and people being moved through the show was actually pretty well orchestrated. A lot of that stuff could be such trainwrecks when they try to organize.
But when we got up on the Texxas Jam stage, I’d never seen a show like that in my entire life. They had the PA system for the stage itself; and then it seemed like a mile back — after an entire huge sea of audience — there was another relay tower, so more speakers that people were climbing up and watching the show from. I think somebody actually fell, and I don’t know if they died. [Editor’s note: we did not find any record of casualties at the Texxas Jam.] Then another relay tower beyond another mile of faces out in the sun. It was relay towers and relay towers, to the point where you could not see the end of the crowd. The sea of faces went to the horizon.
In a nutshell, that’s how important rock music was at the moment. That’s how many people would show up and live through that experience — in many cases, suffer through and get too high and all the rest of it. [You reminded me that] we did three of those. Were there more after that?
IAN SAINT: Your third Texxas Jam, in 1981, was at Houston’s Astrodome. But the first two, in 1978 and 1979, were in Dallas at the State Fair of Texas grounds’ Cotton Bowl — a legendary Art Deco stadium, opened in 1930, that The Rolling Stones have played many times. That’s what made Texxas Jam raise the organizational bar from Cal Jam II, which was at a motor speedway; Fair Park’s infrastructure allowed people to come and go from the stadium, where they could play fair games and such.
NANCY WILSON: Yeah, right, the festival had the fairground kind of thing. You’ll play a really quiet, delicate song like “Alone,” and then somebody is going “ahhh!” on the Salt and Pepper Shakers ride — with the Ferris wheel in the background, and the smell of corn dogs and popcorn. [laugh]
IAN SAINT: Let’s look back at your Texas history before the Texxas Jam. Looks like in 1977, the year before, you were already playing arenas like The Summit in Houston.
NANCY WILSON: They liked us in Texas. We started going more where the audiences were, where the ratings were higher, to radio stations where people were requesting our songs more — Texas liked Heart, so we went to Texas a bunch. The first time we were there, it was like, “What the hell? What kind of lunar landscape is this?” It was desert, just flat. We were on this rudimentary tour bus with our first driver, Curly Jones, who we just saw again recently. [Editor’s note: Prior to driving Heart, the Oak Ridge Boys claim Curly Jones began his tour driving career with them in 1969. Catch our interview with Oak Ridge Boys member of 61 years, William Lee Golden, here.]
Our first tour bus was kind of like the Almost Famous tour bus. [Wilson’s ex-husband Cameron Crowe wrote and directed Almost Famous, and Nancy co-wrote 3 of the fictionalized Stillwater band’s songs.] It was just like a school bus, basically, with a cooler [laugh] and a radio in the front where the driver was. That’s pretty much it, and your bags underneath. There were no amenities then. We traversed Texas in a school bus, is the best description I can give you; and it was hotter than the hinges of Hell.
But the food was amazing — the BBQ and everything was so good. People were really warm, sweet, and good to us, because they liked us — we had a couple of spunky rock gals out there, tearing it up on stages. Somebody would say, like, “Wow, you play real good, that little girl with the big guitar” — you know, fun Texas stuff. [laugh] Texas has always been tight; there’s always been a love affair with Texas and Heart. We always go to lots of places in Texas, and there’s a lot of places to go that are really far apart!
IAN SAINT: The first Texxas Jam was the first time you encountered Journey’s new frontman, Steve Perry — just a few months after they put out “Wheel in the Sky.” Do you recall your first encounter with Steve, at the Cotton Bowl?
NANCY WILSON: Yeah, Steve could not be a sweeter human being. But he did seem conflicted, even as a new singer in that band, because what was demanded of him as a lead singer was really a lot. He’s one of the great singers of the world, and he pulled it off beautifully, like nobody in the world — without pitch correction or anything. It was so beautiful to see those guys play, and to see what he brought to that. Journey always had a lot of musicality and melody, and Steve Perry was king of the emotional delivery on those beautiful melodic songs.
IAN SAINT: Heart was one of the few inaugural Texxas Jam bands that also first played California Jam II in the spring of ’78 — Heart, Aerosmith, Ted Nugent, and Mahogany Rush. Do you recall what led to playing both?
NANCY WILSON: Well, the promoters at the time were all colluding. We really didn’t know why we were ending up at all the cool places we got to go. The first album, Dreamboat Annie, was gaining momentum on a region by region [basis] in the States first, before we hit Europe later. So it was kind of a regional [collaboration of] promoters colluding with each other, radio programming guys, and DJs that were all connecting on the old-fashioned telephone with cords and stuff like that. It was a community of good business thinking that put it all together, and we were just happy to play anywhere. The travel part was always the challenge, and that still is true 50 years after Dreamboat Annie. [laugh]
[Wilson is onto something. Texxas Jam was co-created by Aerosmith and Ted Nugent’s manager, David Krebs, and aforementioned PACE partner Louis Messina. PACE also presented Heart’s 1977 concert at The Summit, and Jefferson Starship’s 1976 concert at The Summit that Heart opened — their first Texas performance, which we’ll discuss later in the interview.]
IAN SAINT: The 1978 Texxas Jam program plugs Heart’s “latest album,” Magazine, which had just been re-released in April after your legal settlement with Mushroom Records — they had issued an unauthorized edition a few weeks before Heart released Little Queen on Portrait Records in 1977. It’s so crazy in retrospect, because Dreamboat Annie was released in the USA only the year prior to Magazine and Little Queen… by the time you got to Texxas Jam, you had three albums making waves almost simultaneously.
You opened and closed your first Texxas Jam set with Magazine tracks “Heartless” and “Without You,” respectively. How did it feel to promote this album that had such a shockingly fraught, complicated release — especially as Little Queen and Portrait Annie were still fresh?
NANCY WILSON: Yeah, it was a really complicated time. [laugh] I guess record companies and “the suits” — as we called them — versus the creatives is an eternal struggle. We had to get into litigation about what [Mushroom Records] went ahead and released without our consent, because there was a key man clause in the paperwork and all this detailed stuff that’s really boring. We got two weeks to re-record some of the [songs], though we couldn’t change the tracklist on that album [which included Mushroom Records’ selections of live recordings of cover songs] but we partially finished what we wanted the Magazine album to be, which was nothing like it turned out to be.
The Magazine album was supposed to be an open-up gatefold double album, concept album with pages to turn like a fashion magazine — with stories, pages, and glamshots of us. That never happened because of all the litigation that happened, which is what everybody wanted to ask us about — but we were already trying to do the next thing and get away from that, so [Magazine] was a complex minefield to walk through in interviews. But we were young and rubbery in our 20s, and we just wanted to get out on those stages; so whatever bullshit we had to live through to do it, we were willing to get past all of that and just get the glory of a million thrills from being on those stages.
IAN SAINT: To your point about moving on to the next thing, you guys played a couple of Dog and Butterfly songs before it was released — including “Mistral Wind.”
Lots of Texxas Jam 1978 attendees vividly recall this incredible moment in Heart’s set with “Mistral Wind,” including your bassist Steve Fossen. He told the Houston Press, “All day long it was super, super hot and they were even spraying the crowd with hoses…. About 2/3rds through our set, Nancy started the chords to ‘Mistral Wind’ and this breeze came through the stadium, and the temperature dropped about 10 degrees. The crowd went ‘Yeeeah!’ And the wind blew through our hair.” Do you remember this?
NANCY WILSON: Of course, I totally remember it. It was like we had summoned the weather to help us with this intense situation, on this magical place called the huge rock stage. It really did feel magical when that song started.
That song has had other situations with weather. It has also kicked up stormy weather as the song describes the storm that goes through the song, and then calmed down at the end of the song — where it goes back to a calm little wind. So you start with a nice breeze, then it goes into a huge thunderstorm — like Ulysses scratches on the rocks in the wild and raging sea — and then your life is saved by not crashing on the rocks and floating into a calm little tributary where it’s just a breeze again. So that song seems to have some kind of power over the weather, but it is called “Mistral Wind.” I’m not a superstitious person, per se; but I think music is pretty powerful stuff, and you never know.
IAN SAINT: Given its dramatic Texxas Jam memory, are you playing “Mistral Wind” when you return to the area?
NANCY WILSON: We played about 72 shows last year, and we did “Mistral Wind” for the first part. But in the place of “Mistral Wind,” we’ve recently been doing “The Rain Song” by Led Zeppelin, which kind of occupies the same territory. It’s a very musical journey, for about the same length of time, that takes you through seasons — it’s beautiful, one of the best songs I think ever written. I’m not sure we’re doing “Mistral Wind” when we come there; but I miss doing “Mistral Wind,” so there’s a good chance we will.
IAN SAINT: Before you play your Eddie Van Halen tribute “4 Edward,” you tell a beautiful story about giving Eddie an acoustic guitar after he complimented your acoustic playing, and then he called you to play an incredible acoustic piece.
Your bandmate Howard Leese told Eddie’s friend, photographer Neil Zlozower, that the first Texxas Jam is where y’all first met Van Halen — and that the band watched Heart play from the side of the stage. Eddie recorded his first acoustic piece, “Spanish Fly,” on Van Halen II a few months later… I wonder if Eddie saw you do that acoustic “Mistral Wind” intro that made the crowd roar at Texxas Jam — even though it was an unreleased song — and that’s what inspired him to compose on acoustic guitar?
NANCY WILSON: Oh, that could be! I wonder. Wow, I’d have never put that together. You are incredibly detailed in your encyclopedic knowledge of timelines!
IAN SAINT: I’m always thinking about cause and effect!
NANCY WILSON: That’s a cool thing to think about. That could very well be, because we did go touring with them [the following year]. I should listen to “Spanish Fly” and see if it might’ve been the thing that sounds like what he played to me on the phone — but I don’t think he ever recorded anything exactly like what he played me on the phone, the morning after I gave him the guitar. He was up all night, so he might not have remembered it either. [laugh]
The “4 Edward” tune is just a “thank you” love letter to him, because there’s never been anything quite like what I heard him play on the phone to me — and it wasn’t all fast. It was kind of classical, very melodic, and then it got kind of rocky. Oh, my God, what a gift I was given — so I’ve returned the gift by doing the “4 Edward” song for him.
IAN SAINT: Was the Texxas Jam the first time that you saw Van Halen, too? July 1, 1978. Their debut album had only been out a couple of months.
NANCY WILSON: Yeah, it would’ve been — I mean, that’s pretty much the first time anybody there had seen them, I guess. We’d heard them on the radio, obviously; that’s why they got the offer to play at the Texxas Jam, because so much was based around radio airplay at the time. I kind of miss terrestrial radio.
Van Halen were insanely amazing to watch. I mean, we got to open for Queen in Europe [in 1982] — it was kind of like that. It was like, you are witnessing something so unmatchable; there’s nothing like this, and there never will be again — that’s how Van Halen was, that’s how Queen was. I mean, Heart is kind of like that, too; there’s not a lot of Hearts floating around in the world, because Ann’s voice is pretty recognizable. There’s a signature sound that is Ann’s vocals and the heavy rock with acoustic type of sound that we have. We come from that era where rock ‘n roll was full of great, rich detail — departures and sections of musical parts, and in some cases, a little long-winded. Think about bands like Yes and Rush; they had all these intricate, cool parts — that peoples’ lifestyles are built from, you know. And *I* was like that! That’s why I love my rock job so much, because I came to the work I still do today as a rock fan. We would kill to go see Led Zeppelin.
I so still love Elton John; and all of his band guys are my pals, too — I’ve jammed with Elton’s band a lot. Heart had been playing at a cabaret way up in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan; and in my dad’s Toyota that he gave me out of college, we were driving back to Vancouver, which took like 17 hours. We got back to Vancouver, but Elton John was playing that same night at the PNE Coliseum, so I had to go and see him. It was my mission from God to go see Elton John. So I borrowed 20 bucks from the hotel cabaret manager guy so I could get my ticket. I hadn’t slept all night; but I got back in the car, drove to the PNE Coliseum, bought a scalped ticket, paid for parking, and had no money left… trying to get in with the photographer backstage — “just tell him I’m your girlfriend, I’m just coming along,” and he’s like, “no way, get out of here.” [laugh] It was one of the more life-altering shows I’d ever seen, because it was just Elton and his small band of Dee Murray, Nigel Olsson and Davy Johnstone playing. He played “Daniel” by himself on the piano… I was like “Okay, my mission is complete. I got to hear that song in that way.” That changed my life, you know, and that’s what music can do. That’s why people do trips out to places like Texxas Jam and go see the Heart show — and we have all generations now coming out, it’s really cool.
IAN SAINT: Speaking of new generations: Chappell Roan is playing “Barracuda” on her world tour, and it’s the only cover song in her set. She played it at her groundbreaking 2024 Austin City Limits set here in Texas — 46 years after you played it at the first Texxas Jam — and you played it with her in New York last September. What do you make of Chappell — who was born 20 years after “Barracuda” came out — carrying “Barracuda” through the global festival circuit now?
NANCY WILSON: Yeah, well, “Barracuda” is one of those quintessential rock songs; and it’s so cool — it just came to my attention that she was doing “Barracuda” as soon as I found out about her. And I completely admire her on every level for her inclusiveness, bravery and realness; she’ll say, “oh, I’ve got a migraine” or “I’m on my period” from the stage — she’ll be so not a show biz, fake kind of person. She’s beautiful theater on every level, too; her fashion is amazing, and she’s all the way cool. But she also is a great songwriter; “Pink Pony Club” and some of her really popular songs are some of the best crafted songs as a songwriter, I’ve gotta say.
The fact that she does “Barracuda,” it was like, “whoa!” She’s got good taste, of course. [laugh] It was such a thrill and honor to be on her stage, with her all-girl rock band. They’re kickass players, all of them; they’re not just posing with guitars — they’ve done all the homework, and they’re really good at proficiency with their instruments, so it was a blast to work with them. And her whole production touring team is first class. They have a code of ethics posted on every dressing room and every production office room, that speaks to behavior — people treating each other fairly with respect and inclusiveness, keeping the drama to a minimum, and all the right stuff.
She came to a Heart show when we first were coming back out, and she was like, “I’m so honored to meet you.” And I’m like, “Are you kidding me? This is so cool you came.” She’d already bought tickets. And when I played with her in New York, I was like, “You’re doing such a good thing for a lot of people. It’s a really good imprint you’re making in the culture.” Especially by not being kind of a stuck-up, fake… she’s not trying to win a popularity contest, you know, she’s really real. And it’s so refreshing that she brings the inclusiveness and the ethic of the golden rule — respect and love each other — especially these days, where the craziness is out of control in the world. She’s a good influence, I applaud her, and I’m just so happy that she exists — right now in particular.
[In between our two conversations, Nancy Wilson presented Chappell Roan with the Harmonizer Award during Grammy Week.]
IAN SAINT: While watching the last Rock Hall induction, I was really struck by you playing with both Soundgarden and Bad Company — because Bad Company was a band that preceded you, and Soundgarden was a band that succeeded you.
I realized that few are in your position, where you can honor bands that you grew up listening to while they’re still alive — like you do with Led Zeppelin and Bad Company — but then you also carry the torch for bands that emerged in decades after you, but are no more, like Soundgarden. Do you feel a sense of being a bridge between your predecessors and successors?
NANCY WILSON: That’s an extremely well-put question, and an extremely simple answer is “Yes.” As someone who would trek across Canada with no sleep to go see a life-altering moment like Elton John playing “Daniel” for the first time, [being] that kind of music fan is what drives me to create more new music and continue to get the million thrills of rock performances — but also to connect the dots between who came before us and who’s coming in after us, and keep it inspiring and aspirational for rock music fans. I mean, Chappell is not [classified] as rock, but she can rock; and somebody like Pink is a pop star, but she can totally rock, too. It’s a really great genre for the power of songs that imprint on our lives — that guide us and heal us, and actually help us live through a lot of our challenges. When you have love of music, like we get to have, we’re lucky and appreciate having people like Chappell Roan in our sphere. It’s really inspiring and life-saving, every day. I think that’s what music has done for us all and continues to do for us all, it kind of saves your life. And I can tell you know that almost more than anybody — you could write a thesis. [laugh]
IAN SAINT: [blush] Well, now I wish I could go back and explore a thesis on digging into whether or not Eddie seeing Heart perform for the first time at the Texxas Jam — and watching the crowd’s roar to your “Mistral Wind” acoustic intro — led to him complimenting your acoustic playing, then you encouraging him, and that’s what produced “Spanish Fly” on the classic Van Halen II record!
NANCY WILSON: Wow, that’s a thesis right there. [laugh] And probably “Crazy On You,” too. I’m gonna follow that; I’ll go back and listen to “Spanish Fly” again because of that idea. [Eddie watching Heart on stage at the Texxas Jam] is a great detail that I hadn’t even known before, because those situations are so chaotic; there’s so much happening that you’re fixated on what your rock job is.
But I think it’s true that every artist / creative / writer type person borrows from their influences in moments that are meaningful to them, and they take that with them when they create the next thing. It’s all very cross-pollinating, and stuff like that is beautiful about [music] too — another positive influence.
We’re putting together a Heart documentary. You’ll be an amazing resource, obviously, for that; so we should stay in touch, because you’re a total pro where that’s concerned. There’s a storage place in LA, with a whole bunch of gear, old Heart collectibles, fan club letters, Heart tour programs we’re figuring out how to use to show and tell for the documentary, as well as for collectors. I’ve got bins and bins of CDs of my score music, and cassettes of songwriting sessions. I found one of the original “Mistral Wind” music boxes that are really rare. All of these cool things are starting to return into my life, even from childhood, and it’s really amazing — it makes you feel pretty old, though. [laugh] It’s like, “How many lifetimes have I lived already?” Like, the 70s was so different from the ‘80s, all that stuff. It’s really cool that you’re such a deep dive archivist yourself, so we’ll continue to work together.
IAN SAINT: Well, that’s music to my ears — and I have more archival gold to show you, like your first Texas gigs. From what I can find, your first time playing Texas was opening for Jefferson Starship at The Summit in Houston on September 22, 1976, the year Dreamboat Annie was released in the USA.
NANCY WILSON: Oh, Mickey Thomas just opened for us a couple weeks ago. Really nice people.
IAN SAINT: Wow! This 1976 run would’ve been Jefferson Starship before Mickey Thomas replaced Marty Balin as male lead. After y’all played Houston, you played Fort Worth; and Buddy had a Cover Story interview with Grace Slick, conducted backstage… I agree with you that Heart’s catalogue embodies all the mini-eras of rock — like the mid 70s was distinct from the late ‘70s, and the early ‘80s versus your MTV heights — and I think the Jefferson Airplane / Jefferson Starship / Starship dynasty does, as well.
NANCY WILSON: Yeah, they preceded Heart; like you were saying, eras are represented [in their catalogue] — we crossed over with Jefferson Starship, [between] Jefferson Airplane and the Starship era. Led Zeppelin was right before us. Fleetwood Mac [with Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham] was simultaneous with us. It’s a really fascinating timeline in rock music explore for sure.
IAN SAINT: The fact that Heart is still touring is incredible, too. At the Rock Hall induction, I thought about how The White Stripes took off in the 2000s; they’re already considered a legacy act, but that band is retired and yours — whose debut album was a quarter century before theirs — isn’t.
NANCY WILSON: Right. After this one month left to conclude our Royal Flush Tour, we’re setting up a unified powerhouse team to [complete] the documentary. We’ve got a final draft of the script coming soon; and a Heart album that Ann wants to do, which we’re going to write and record over this next year. It’s really exciting. Plus, we just heard that Dreamboat Annie is going to be recognized with a Grammy Hall of Fame award on May 8th. Then we’re going to strategize for probably the final tour, or penultimate, in 2027 or 2028 — really big league, like a world tour with somebody like Stevie Nicks.
IAN SAINT: Wow, a tour with Stevie Nicks would be epic. I’m glad you mentioned her — when I interviewed Ann for my NPR station, I found this bootleg recording of Heart playing a show in 1985, where you brought out both Stevie Nicks and Grace Slick to sing “What About Love.” I was like, gosh, that’s the trifecta right there.
ANN WILSON [in November, 2023 conversation with Ian Saint]: I think I did know there is a bootleg out there somewhere, yeah. And I do remember that night. I remember that, at that point, Stevie was traveling with us on our plane; she jumped on because we had met in Phoenix — when we played there the night before — and hung out with her, and really hit it off. And so she jumped on the plane, and we went up to San Francisco, and Grace was there; and we thought, “Why not? Get ’em all up there, c’mon! Let’s get some power up there!”
IAN SAINT: Right! That was the thing that struck me the most, “how on Earth did they get their schedules to align, when they’re all on tour?”
Ann Wilson: Well, it’s funny how quick you can get peoples’ schedules to align if you have a #1 album. [laugh]
NANCY WILSON: Stevie actually hitched her wagon and flew around with us for a few shows, and came out for “What About Love” a few times. I think Grace Slick did it with us for San Francisco. She had already sang in the chorus gang vocal of the “What About Love” recording session. We had a bunch of good singers, including Grace Slick, all singing together.
IAN SAINT: I’m delighted that photographer Bruce Kessler, who runs the RockinHouston.com site, took incredible photos of your first Texas show in 1976, opening for Jefferson Starship at The Summit. He says that Heart blew the headliner off stage, so it’s not surprising that you headlined The Summit just six months later for Little Queen. He even has a photo of the heart-shaped cake from Barbara’s Home Cookin’, so perhaps that was your first taste of Texas BBQ.
NANCY WILSON: It’s amazing that they took pictures [at our first Texas show].
Slideshow of Heart at The Summit in Houston on September 22, 1976. Opening for Jefferson Starship, it appears to be their first performance in Texas.
IAN SAINT: After opening for Jefferson Starship, Heart ventured west and headlined in El Paso — where you’ll be returning, 50 years later, on this tour leg. And your opener was an Australian chap named Rick Springfield, five years before he had a hit song at age 32 with “Jessie’s Girl.”
NANCY WILSON: Oh, yeah! [laugh] That’s so cool.
IAN SAINT: It’s funny to imagine you traversing West Texas — which is pretty desolate — for the first time with this glamorous Australian dude. Do you remember that?
NANCY WILSON: Vaguely. I just remember he looked like a Hollywood star. You’re always kind of suspect of people that are so good looking, like him. “How could he be a cool person if he’s that good looking?” You know what I mean? But I don’t remember; we probably hung out, probably had a photo opportunity together somewhere along the way. That’s pretty far back. [laugh]
Slideshow from Heart playing El Paso’s Memorial Gym on September 25, 1976. They return to El Paso half a century later, on March 6, 2026. Concert photographer unknown.
IAN SAINT: It’s funny, because the El Paso Times reviewer wrote, “Keep your ears open. Rick Springfield is a name you’ll likely hear again.” So kudos to Heart for having him as your opener during Dreamboat Annie, because apparently that really helped. [laugh]
NANCY WILSON: That’s amazing. [laugh] He’s still out there with Sammy Hagar and stuff. Mike Inez from Alice In Chains was our bass player for a few years, when Layne Staley [died]. We were at a festival where Rick Springfield was doing “Jessie’s Girl” on another stage. The ‘90s ethic, with the Seattle explosion type rock bands [like Alice in Chains], were all pushing against the commercialism of the ‘80s; and Rick Springfield was king of the ‘80s. Mike Inez is a hysterical person; he was on the side of Rick Springfield’s stage, mimicking him singing “Jessie’s Girl” as a sardonic Seattle guy. [laugh] It was an interesting dynamic, because it was the Seattle ‘90s [grunge rocker] crossover with the previous era, going into the next. Rick’s a really sweet person, and so is Mike Inez.
IAN SAINT: Another funny bit from that El Paso Times 1976 review is they said, “Undoubtedly, the best of Heart was ‘Soul of the Sea.’” That song is a real deep cut, so it’s interesting to read that opinion in retrospect.
NANCY WILSON: Oh, that’s great. That’s really interesting. Yeah, that’s a deep cut for sure. [laugh]
IAN SAINT: We have photos from that El Paso 1976 show, and it appears that you’re playing a Stratocaster or something similar. Buddy also has exclusive photos, taken by Kirby Warnock, of you at 1983 NAMM with Dean Guitars founder Dean Zelinsky. You went on to play Dean guitars in those iconic music videos for “Never” and “These Dreams,” which you’re playing on tour. Can you shed more light on how that Dean partnership that Buddy documented came to be?
Nancy Wilson at NAMM 1983 with Dean Guitars founder Dean Zelinsky. Photos by former Buddy editor Kirby Warnock.
NANCY WILSON: [Heart bandmate] Howard Leese was a big influence on me with guitar expertise, and there was a deal he had going with Dean Guitars — I kind of piggybacked with that deal. They were really beautiful guitars. It was kind of an early stage vibrato bar situation, where the dive bomb gear technology was pretty new in the ’80s — so I was experimenting with that, and piggybacking on that deal Howard Leese had with Dean, then Paul Reed Smith as well after that. You know, there were just phases of guitar brands that we went through.
But for me, I’m still a real purist. I’ve ended up playing just my 1963 Telecaster and my, I think it’s a ‘77 SG Gibson with the Bigsby wang bar. So there’s nothing very complicated about what I like to do with guitar brands anymore. The wang bar, I just went back to the old classic ‘50s Bigsby vibrato bar, instead of the extra technology of the dive bomb type vibrato bar — just because taking it around and changing strings was a real science project on those things, you know? So I just kept it simple in the long run, with Martin acoustics and Takamine acoustics, and old electrics — the old Gibson and old Telecaster that I use. I have a 1957 Stratocaster that is a real dear friend, I practice with at home. I like the old guitars because they sound better. You don’t need as many pedals to play with those kind of guitars, because the wood’s already got all the soul ingrained right into the body of the guitar itself — and a good old amp with tubes, you just can’t beat the sound.
IAN SAINT: You have signature guitars for both electric and acoustic. You mentioned Martin, I believe you have an acoustic model with them; and Epiphone for electric, is that right?
NANCY WILSON: Yeah. Epiphone, which is a Gibson company, made me a kinda diminutive cutaway SG style — I designed the body shape to look more like a female body version of the Les Paul. So it’s the offshoot of the Jimmy Page guitar done by a girl; I drew the body shape like a girl. That guitar was a really good, nice signature.
I haven’t done a signature since after Martin; it’s what I love to use. When I went to the Martin company, I’d been using a lot of Ovations, which were related [as a competitor] to the Takamine company, which does great stuff. I said, “What I want to channel is the CSNY acoustic guitars that David Crosby, Stephen Stills, Graham Nash, and Neil Young would be playing.” That was the blueprint for my signature; and it’s still one of my favorite guitars in the whole world, that I can count on one hand.
[Nancy’s dog walks into the frame] Oh, there’s Bernie.
IAN SAINT: Hi, Bernie! I love his name. My grandpa was named Bernie.
NANCY WILSON: He’s a Bernadoodle, but he’s also named after Bernie Taupin.
IAN SAINT: Wow! Then I’ve got to end with asking about “These Dreams,” which was Heart’s first #1 song on Billboard’s Hot 100 pop chart — and it’s actually you singing the lead vocal, before Ann got her soaring #1 with “Alone.” We’ve talked about amazing lead singers in your orbit, Buddy has NAMM photos of you and Dean before you played a Dean guitar in the music video, and we saw your dog named after “These Dreams” lyricist (and Elton John’s lyricist) Bernie Taupin. What singers did you take inspiration from, as you made your smash hit as a lead singer?
NANCY WILSON: My sister Ann, obviously, is one of those singers like Chris Cornell or Steve Perry who just have this gift of an unbelievably beautiful singing voice. I’m a guitar player who had this fluke of singing this gorgeous song that I had to fight for, because I loved it so much — with Bernie Taupin lyrics, and it had that mystical, spiritual kind of romance to it, that was magical in this way that really appealed to me. So I gave it my all. It was a perfect fit for my particular style of singing.
I had a cold doing the mock vocal. We ended up keeping the parts where my voice broke up, because I can’t recreate that very easily if I don’t have a cold. Maybe I should try to get sick all the time whenever I sing that song, or take up smoking. [laugh] I love singing that song, and I’m not a born singer; I’m a born player. My influences were the same as Ann’s — mainly Robert Plant and Elton John, and guys more than any girls that were out there, [although] a little bit of Aretha [Franklin] for sure and Ann. I always feel lucky about that song; it was kind of like I was a contest winner, who won a prize when I got to sing that song.
For Heart tour dates and tickets, visit their official website: https://www.heart-music.com/
